Ep 35: Email Marketing, Reinvented: Back to Basics with an Edge
EPISODE 35
Email Marketing, Reinvented: Back to Basics with an Edge
Email marketing isn't new, but treating your email marketing strategy like you did a decade ago (or even a year ago) is a mistake!
Email, not social media, is where the conversions (sales, donations) happen! In this episode, you'll hear how to embrace the foundational elements of email marketing -- the basics -- but without sounding basic. The importance of your email list is stronger than ever, but preferences, tastes, and formatting has changed. More on how to stand out in today's episode!
For nonprofits and social impact businesses
Wednesday, May 17th @ 2PM ET / 11AM PT
Revamp your email strategy in 30 minutes a week!
Sign up for Free: https://www.splendidcourses.com/email
Steal my Prospect List! Lead Gen just got a lot easier!
Resources mentioned:
Easy Emails for Impact: My email marketing course for nonprofits, consultants, and social impact businesses. Learn more here: www.splendidcourses.com/easyemails
Private coaching: This is the fastest way to kickstart your growth and have support, strategy, and momentum to grow sustainably without burning out. Start by scheduling a discovery call here.
00:00 All right, welcome Emily Taylor to the purpose and profit club podcast. I'm so excited to have you here today. I'm excited to be here.
00:09 So I'm going to let you introduce yourself, tell us a bit about what you do and I want to know also how you came up with your business name because I love it.
00:16 I love even the way that that it's lowercase than upper kite. So you're the principal at teeny big. So tell us all about that the work you do.
00:25 Sure. So a teeny big I focus on strategic listening for nonprofits. And just in other words, what that is is a qualitative research.
00:35 And so I help organizations better understand their data by talking to people understanding different aspects of their audience, but also doing some of the cool things that you can do when you actually talking to people versus just building analytics on them.
00:53 Where we get to get ideas in front of them. We get to talk about their thoughts and feelings and really dig deep down to help make strategic decisions for your organization.
01:04 Oh, and then for the name. Yes. So I, I gave myself a challenge when I was starting a business. I come from a design background and I know I can spend forever coming up with a logo and a name and sort of the branding things behind it.
01:20 So I gave myself 45 minutes to come up with something and in that process, teeny big really rose the top because I, I like the aspect of zooming in and out on particular challenge.
01:35 So we can understand things by really looking at the big picture and trends, but also, you know, zooming in and understanding what individual people are, you know, decisions people are making and, you know, detailed data points that can help us see the full picture rather than just coming in from where
01:53 we usually view a challenge. I love that. So it's like the micro macro right. Yeah. Yeah. And I also love I feel like you and I have some similarities in the way that we think and that's probably why I was drawn to you.
02:11 When I heard you, I think on our friend, Cindy's podcast, I was like, ooh. She's talking about data, but she's talking about it in a very like in a way that makes sense to me and that's, that's one of the things that right away.
02:22 When I had to come up with my business name splendid consulting, I also, I gave myself. Although I wasn't that that discipline, I was.
02:30 I was a son setting and closing one company and opening up a new one, I gave myself a week to make the decision on everything.
02:37 So I gave myself seven days. So, because the same thing, because we can go into decision fatigue on logos and name and font.
02:46 I'm an idea generator and I have to give myself my patience to stop. Yes, yes, awesome, I love that. All right, so we're going to dive into one of the things that you and I talked about when we initially met, which is you do come from the for profit world like I do and that's kind of what the lens you
03:04 bring to nonprofits, tell us about that. Sure, so I spent a lot of my career in design research and product development in the for profit world, so a lot in packaging and analogy that I like to bring it up is a package, I didn't have to get a perfume model, a shampoo, little man can cheese, all that
03:26 stuff, the package just to tell you what's inside and I think we're packaging things all the time and so I think it was just a good analogy.
03:35 But we also, you know, we're going to come these do a ton of research in order to understand why people buy things, they're doing persuade them to buy things and so I think there's a lot of those lessons I've been tweaking and working into the nonprofit world.
03:57 Like, what comes up for you when you think about like either those lessons or like, oh, I wish I wish my nonprofits, I wish that nonprofits would think of things this way or do this extra due diligence like what comes up for you as some some low hanging fruit.
04:14 I think one of a, this is low hanging fruit, but like the big. Yeah, okay. Big giant ripe fruit. Yeah, I have fruit.
04:22 The whole tree is, you know, in the for private world, they're always looking for the white space, you know, what is the area, the uncharted area where people just need this candle in their home or you know, whatever is like missing from their lives.
04:38 Yeah, you know, that to me doesn't feel good. I do like a new product into somebody's life, but when we think of it in a nonprofit space, rather than using research to see what's been done before and what worked for these other things to go out and talk to people and understand like what's missing from
05:00 their lives. What can your nonprofit do to help, you know, partner with them and sort of fill some of those emotional needs, but also, you know, just like help them, you know, everyone wants to be a better person and I think really understanding how people are thinking about your particular nonprofits
05:19 issue can help you find that white space or stuff you haven't tried before, maybe it's a new event, maybe it's a new campaign.
05:27 And I think that sort of, you know, campaign research or event research can really lead to some new ideas that break through.
05:36 Okay, so you said something really important, which is like some you said something you haven't tried before. We've been doing it and maybe it's working okay, but at least it's cozy and safe and I know what it's going to cost us and let's just keep doing that so, so talk about that that I don't know
06:06 if that's a mindset piece or what would you say to that like sort of that that dilemma. In our world, like especially you know current world like everyone is buying for attention and so if you're going to do the same thing over and over.
06:22 It's going to you know it's not going to get as much attention and I was kind of like when I think about this I think of the statistic that you're most likely to get into an accident within a mile of your home.
06:33 And part of it's because you're seeing all the same things over and over again and you're bringing to stop seeing them anymore.
06:41 And so if we're doing the same type of event for showing the same talking about our challenges in the same way.
06:48 They just kind of get you know put into people sort of like back burner remind it's not that they don't care but it's just they're like oh yeah that's the experience that.
06:59 And so for able to bring in new ideas. It just draws people's attention. You know we don't want to do new ideas just for the sake of them.
07:10 But if you don't do new ideas you're going to fall to that back burner. Yeah it's like I've heard somebody talk about like nobody you don't think about going to poor glass of water because you go poor glass of water I go to the fridge a press the button the water comes out.
07:22 I'm doing that while I'm thinking about something else right but but if I'm if I'm doing something for the first time I'm very in it or even the second or third time it's like got my attention.
07:32 And it is a little bit of organizations talking about their mission are talking about it upcoming fundraiser or something as if they're pouring a glass of water they're using the same words they're having the same event they're swapping out like the date and the time but that's about it and.
07:47 From the donor supporter consumer point of view. That's going to be really hard to get our attention the 10th year the fifth year right.
07:56 And it's one thing if you have people on a monthly donor list and you don't really have to give you it's a mabbak for in our mind but people are still making those those that support you know then then you can lay the back burner but if you need to increase something it's got a.
08:13 You got to kind of refresh you got to be able to strike something in people's minds that's new and different.
08:19 Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about how you can use listening to gain new donors because that is that's something that's really interesting to me that you're like I feel like a master listener so talk to us about that and what that looks like.
08:33 What is listening and walk us through that process. Okay, well, we got a lot a lot to unpack there so you know what what listening is just in like there's a lot of different ways to go about it depending on the scale of people you want to listen to the type of people you want to listen to but.
08:50 Oh, I'll text specifically go out new donors. Yeah, is that you mentioned that. And so you know one of the things to look at is when I listen as I try to focus in on who are you listening to.
09:02 So sometimes people, you know, might think about their audience in terms of generationally. You know older donors younger donors. You might look at geographically, you know, do you have sort of local people or people who are for their out or maybe it's through media channels and over your.
09:22 Really marketing to people or sending out mailers or doing things in person. And so when you think about a new donor like let's say it's younger donors.
09:32 I know a lot of organizations and I talked about this on Cindy's podcast of like donors their average donor age just keep going up one.
09:40 You know, one year every year. Yep. And so they need younger donors and so what I would want to do is listen to like what are your youngest donors.
09:49 You know, how they connected with you. How did they get to first donate and then maybe go beyond that and find.
09:59 But I typically call the lurkers, you know, the people that are maybe could potentially be those younger donors, maybe the people on a younger age range, below your average, but they haven't donated.
10:11 So understanding them and why they care about your organization enough to work around. How do you know there are a lurker like what, how do you know there are a lurker.
10:22 Well, I would say a lurker is are people who are. They are connected to your organization that they haven't yet taken an action that you'd like them to take.
10:32 So they might be. I'm your email list but haven't donated they might be following your social media but they haven't attended an event.
10:39 It kind of is up to you to define that, but they they have not committed to doing anything yet. So I can hear like a million little or executive directors in my area right now go, well, well, okay, yes, they exist.
10:56 We've got lots of them on Instagram following us and lots of them on our email list, but like what do I do, how do I get them to take action, how do I get them like from lurker to donor, what is that it feels like you know, what is that jump.
11:13 Yeah, well, it's it's understanding. Why they care and what they're doing so far so yeah, I'll that that's sort of why like understand the people who have already taken the action.
11:25 Let's say, you know, let's say younger donors for you are, you know, 25 to 40 year olds. So, you know, what's the survey, you know, would you be willing to talk to me for 15 minutes.
11:49 And then you sort of understand to understand well, I guess then the, this is the, the, the more drawn out process of my work is like really trying to figure out the questions you need understand why they haven't taken an action so.
12:03 Why do they care about the work that you do, how did they find out about you. Where else do they donate.
12:11 Just to understand their behaviors. Generosity. So the stories and motivations that attract them to your work. And so you can start to paint that kind of before and after picture.
12:27 See some gaps of like well, how can we get these people to do this action. Do you find that it's like.
12:36 Usually one one or two kind of main themes on why they haven't or is does it depend on the organization like i'm thinking.
12:43 Yeah, it's like understanding who they are in their motivation because they're not in your world for a reason, assuming they're opening your emails assuming they're liking your social social post but they haven't taken action.
12:54 Okay, so the marketer in me goes. Well, where's the friction like is it too hard for them to make a donation are they clicking through too much and you've lost them.
13:04 Do they not really understand the urgency is it messaging you know things like that. So does there tend to be a common reason or what do you see through that.
13:14 That makes sense. Yeah, I think it's a lot of those types of things so it might be. You know, going back to sort of those new ideas it might be that you know the story that you're telling is just something they've maybe heard too much of they've you know it's been the new driving around too often so
13:34 it might just be the fresh fresh start. It can be accessibility can be the way you know the way you're describing the need.
13:45 A lot of times I find you know such a talking about older and younger donors, generationally people think about problems in different ways.
13:55 I know there's a lot of trends about you know younger younger generations wanting to feel more part of it of getting organization so I think understanding how they see themselves playing a part of it or even just giving.
14:09 How they can give feedback can make them feel more close to an organization. And have you found that to be true like that statistic I feel like that data is there that younger younger generations really want to be a part of something like they want to be a part of a community.
14:26 They want to be part of social change in a way that's very different from an older generation and there why on why they give so in your work, have you found that like yeah that seems to be true.
14:37 You know, they're also the most you know sought after for attention generation to so you have to it you have to earn that.
14:49 You know that attention or that. And then you know, I'm really telling. Are you. Doing things in a different way that feels like.
15:16 You know, maybe if people built some skepticism over why things haven't changed in the past. And then the first involvement.
15:26 You know, a lot of people are more used to having a voice now. And so to be able to even if it's just give feedback that is involved.
15:36 To be able to say, well, you know, I work in the tech industry and I see these kind of things working in the for profit world to be able to give that feedback.
15:48 And so, you know, even if it's not necessarily right for your organization is is a strong participation point for. For the younger generation, but I.
15:59 There are, you know, kind of like overarching themes in younger generations, but to also understand what's true for your specific audience is also helpful because every.
16:11 Sector is a little different of you know, the way people's a little different. It's going to combine those two things with specifics, you know, from your work.
16:22 I feel like that's overarching what I've heard from you that I really, really like, which is like there is the data and there's also you being in the organization and having your your your own experience with your community and using that to as data like to inform.
16:37 And then you're next steps to inform right what what what what your next strategy is. Okay, so I'm going to move on and let's talk about this idea of experience mapping and cultivation, tell us what that is and why it's important.
16:54 So experience mapping is is really thinking about people's overall experience with your organization. So when I was talking about workers before the initial awareness of what you do, they might decide to follow you.
17:10 And all that before they take an action and then you know there's sort of the different levels within your organization where someone can go from, you know, volunteering or making a donation to be in more and more engaged.
17:22 When we think about that. Bigger that first initial part if you're not really if you're just kind of treating everybody the same.
17:35 You're kind of cultivating people and kind of hitting them in the right moment with the right information and so I think that you know I give the analogy of like learning to play the guitar you're not a teacher is not going to just come in and give you like a big complicated.
17:50 You know, being hell and rift to try to learn first you're going to like learn something simple something exciting and and work and slowly build up those skills and so in the same way.
18:03 You know, when you want to bring new people in your organization having. Happy statistics having you know kind of just really kind of catchy story that that might not feel like super in depth about your.
18:21 But your mission or just important to grab people's attention. And once you can do that, then you can start to draw them in more and more to really understand the work that you're doing.
18:31 And I'm not saying you know. So why or fake anything, but you just want you know there are things that are.
18:39 Cheer about what you do and we'll start to bring people in. Oh 100%. It's feeling like giving, especially the new people who are still really in that that nurture phase like adding lands.
18:53 So somebody who isn't going to read everything that you send them somebody isn't going to dive into that that long story or that long form whatever to give them some added lands of what your organization.
19:04 Does right some social proof that it works. I am always somebody who skin so it's like if I just skimmed your email or skimmed something what could I get out of it that I would be like oh that's interesting I want to come back for me more.
19:16 That's the piece that you're talking about with with some of those newbies right. Yeah, I think of those like too long don't read little yeah yeah yeah the things it's like what is that out of it.
19:28 Because yeah the first thing you need is to just get people to remember who you are. And what are the people what about the people who they know who you are they've been supporting you what do they need like what do they need and in.
19:44 You know they've been in it they've been in your world for years like what is it that we can do better on that they're not already getting.
19:53 Yeah, and that's so so as we as people move up that ladder you don't just want to stay static it's like right.
19:59 You can move up and engagement the better and so this is you know again where I think it's nuanced to the organization but but just to think it through you know perhaps you have some regular donors.
20:13 But you'd like them to increase the level that they're donating on an annual basis that starts to get to be like helping them understand the need and then you know they might know more about your works you can go more in depth with them that you can tell them.
20:32 The policy work that you're doing that takes a lot of time and a lot of effort, but is is not for you know the lurkers they have quite understand the numbers yeah yeah yeah yeah and so you know you can do more in depth stories.
20:47 Behind the scenes, I think being able to like give people a little video or or some kind of more intimate information can help make them.
20:57 You know one understand the need better and why there's an increase like if they need the donation why it would help them, but it also gives them you know for talking about the younger generation, I think this is everybody just to be able to.
21:10 You know have a little bit of vulnerability. Yeah bring them more closely you know feel more close to your work.
21:18 So I love that you you brought that up that's something so I built this I taught this new email marketing course live earlier this year, and in that.
21:37 Really starting to weave in your own personality and your own point of view and and it's not all the highlight real and and weaving that into your messaging and your email content and a lot of organizations don't do that right of like.
21:54 It's not they're not they're not letting people know about the the challenges or everything's very very high level and very like glossy and buttoned up and so.
22:05 Can you give us permission to like to be vulnerable and and from from your lens, why is that important. Yeah, I mean, I think that's just the again this this is a trend and not necessarily right for everybody, but you know to be I think the more you can show how human you are.
22:28 Yeah, you know when we think about you know, I because I come from the for profit world I try to think of comparisons because you know most of your donors are not in the nonprofit world.
22:40 And so like you know if they would invest in a you know a Kickstarter or some sort of you know entrepreneur.
22:47 Right, you don't expect them to win all the time like yeah, there is there is sort of that that challenge that they're up against as an entrepreneur.
22:58 That you know you're kind of buying into that process and like how are they going to solve this problem what are they going to do can they.
23:07 And so I try to think about that when it comes to nonprofits to of you know you are trying to solve a problem that no one can solve that is why you know that's why you really know yeah you knew exactly how to solve it that you probably wouldn't be.
23:22 You know the issue would have been needed and so to realize you know that's not only help people understand but also when you talk to people think about that you know what you're up against and helping people buy into that challenge what's a new way you're.
23:40 You know you're going to solve it or how do you know or feel that like the way that you're solving this challenges the best way and and what did you learn what mistakes for me and what did you learn along the way that sort of.
24:10 Or meeting your mission and that's really I feel like what gives organizations and edge is when they tell the truth right when they talk about that you know there's more than one most likely organization that does what you do right.
24:25 So if you talk about it in a really generic way it's not really gonna sound much different than everybody else that when you talk about your journey or your personal experience or what's going on with your organization today now you've got a little bit of an edge and I'm identifying with that story
24:41 and I'm I'm much more engaged than I might be if it was just more kind of generic. Yeah, let's let's like style to yeah yeah exactly so last year you gave this talk about prototyping and thoughtful courage tell us about that and I want to dig into that.
25:01 Yeah, this will cover station we wanted to go over it because one of the things young tranette empathize with the listeners as well as like well how do you.
25:10 How do you know how do you know what to do, you can talk to people that what do you do with that information how do you know, and a move people along that engagement so.
25:20 So, so one of those ways is through prototyping and and testing so. This is something done a ton in the for profit world where you know you come up with you you figure out what people might need you bring some ideas of of how that might come to life.
25:38 Models or pictures, and then you share those with people and get their feedback on them, and you can do the same in the nonprofit sector so you know let's say you're trying to turn those younger lurkers into donors.
25:54 And you know you talk to some people you can see these differences between the younger donors and the younger lurkers well, you might not know exactly what it's going to take.
26:06 So you can rotate ideas, you can you know send different emails out you can put some different campaigns together and show them to people and I don't mean.
26:15 I mean headline and a paragraph some photos just something quick. I did my 45 minute. I'm going to put a little free on name challenge.
26:28 You can put together something quick and get them in front of people and it allows you to have that courage of an entrepreneur like trying something new without having to blast your whole email list with it like this.
26:44 You can just see how do people react. Do they understand it. Do they maybe think like, Oh, that totally reminds me of this horrible thing.
26:52 Yeah, that I experienced in my life. So don't go down that route. You can you can work out some of those mistakes.
26:59 But, but still trying new things and moving in that direction where you're getting people's attention and getting them to take action.
27:09 So this is like a digital focus group. I'm thinking of kind of like that. Do they know they're a focus group.
27:17 Are they like, does that make sense. Or is this like sending a small segment of your audience. Like a, like a test for a campaign.
27:25 There you could do all. I'll just give a few examples of what it might look like. Like it could be as simple as sort of like a small A B email.
27:35 Yeah, total. It's a different version. Send it out. So you know I've done that as a marketer before. I'm like, I don't know what to call this workshop.
27:43 Let's A B test it. Yeah. So you can just click a real action. People are taking and you can learn from that.
27:51 You don't always know why like what exactly I was. And, and you can't really like test complex things. You can sort of test like a little, you know, a picture.
28:03 That's right. That's a great tip is don't make a completely different than B. Otherwise, we didn't really A B test.
28:12 So, you know, I've done surveys where we put together. Four different ads for, for an organization. So it was just sort of like, pulling out different marketing ideas.
28:26 Like, one was about the family that the organization was based on one was more about the history. And then the neighborhood that the organization was in.
28:36 And we just brought these life with literally just, you know, seven words and a picture. And then through the survey, we're able to ask people questions about it.
28:46 And another way might be that you. I've also done things where we, we just put together a pretend web page and something really simple like using a use.
28:58 A square space template and just, you know, put a button into different spots and then show them to people and just watch them use it.
29:09 They go. So those are just a few different ways, which, you know, hundreds of ways to prototype, but that's just ways you can start to see how people use things versus just asking them how they might feel about it.
29:23 And then also observe them and see, you know, what are, produce some unexpected things that you are seen in their interaction with that new idea.
29:34 I feel like almost not no nonprofits do this. Like I'm thinking of the scene. I don't know if you watch Silicon Valley from HBO.
29:43 Oh my gosh. So it's all about startups and Silicon Valley. And there's this, they kind of like refer back to it through many seasons, but there's this like focus group.
29:51 So whether it's a new app or some sort of functionality piece, they're always bringing people back into the room. And it's, you know, a group of people and sometimes it's just young people.
30:01 Sometimes it's different age groups. And then there's like kind of like the, that is, that is the data you need to know before you go put a bunch of money behind it is where did people get stuck.
30:23 Why don't they like the functionality or why do they love that little web page where you put the donate button over here or that image really stuck with them and feel like I don't, I don't really see that happening too much.
30:35 So I love like there's that that is such a great idea that it's not about doing it in the most complex way.
30:42 This is something really simple we could, we could test right, we can ask for feedback for. Yeah, I, I was pretty.
30:50 Definitely new in the nonprofit world, I see it a little more in associations for. Or healthcare where I like to get into getting feedback from organizations, but I think the thing I really like to push is you know there's.
31:15 You're your facility you're talking to lots of people you're giving them incentives you're making a plan. And you can, you know, you can do that, but you can also just call people up and yes.
31:27 Yeah, do it, do it in an organized way. Have a list of questions know what you're trying to figure out.
31:35 And everything in between and so it's really trying to write right size your resources with what you want to learn.
31:42 And so that's right, so don't take what I just said and be like Christina said, I need to find a focus group in person and have the mirror and no.
31:51 Like yes, do it with the resources and time you have and there's a way that everybody could do this and you just touched on my next question which is.
32:01 How do you know when you should survey a group versus interview a group, so you were just talking about like you know just call them up and so what is that.
32:10 Because because you do both and so talk to us about that process and i'm somebody who I survey my audience quite a bit, and so I feel like I know the like challenges and the benefits of survey so let's dig into that.
32:23 Yeah, yeah, I actually have some I have some pieces on that I can send to your audience as well. Because it is it is a challenge so surveys are really good if you want to reach a wider variety of people in a with a shallower amount of information so yep you know if you want to kind of you know understand
32:46 how they generally feel about something. Preferences for things you know I always love to have a few open ended questions to talk about past just things that you might not even know to ask it's great they'll just have an open ended area for venting positive or negative.
33:07 So you get you know get those things that you don't know to ask. And so surveys can be really good for that.
33:16 And then interviews are really helpful for understanding what you don't know so you know people are you know so it might be really hard to do a survey about why aren't you donating.
33:30 People just don't think about it. So we need to donate more. Yeah, so we need an interview to dig into the why behind that right to dig into the motivation to dig into some of the objections so keep going.
33:53 Yeah, and I think that interview is kind of another is like you have to know who you want to interview so if you you know let's say you want to try to increase your donors but you don't really know which.
34:05 What kind of subset of people like to focus on is survey can help you figure some of that out. Yeah, you know you can sort of put some determiners about age or location and then you can sort of like a have people different people answered.
34:22 And if you want to know you don't just want to blanket interview 15 random people, you want to talk to people who fit fit the demographic or fit the criteria of what you're trying to learn about, so you can dive dive deeper into that segment.
34:42 So I'm going to give an example like an organization I work with they have a decent size donor base that are either doctors or nurses because of what they do right not all so they could dig into that subset of nurses and get some data.
34:58 Because a question they might be answering is okay we've had these core group of doctors and nurses who work in the medical field and maybe they work in the medical field in this location right.
35:08 How do we get more of them is my favorite question right how do we have more of them so is that something we could use an interview to help uncover.
35:19 Yeah, and so you know one of the big a lot of times people feel like interviews like you're only talking to a few people, how do you really know that you're learning something about yeah a group.
35:31 And one of the statistics that come out of a lot of qualitative for private research is that if you can talk to five specific people you get you can get 80% of the information you're looking for.
35:43 And you know I think there's a lot of stipulations to that but the more that doesn't mean five random people off the street, the more you can talk to you know that subset of doctors of nurses, maybe the separate nurses of doctors.
35:57 Yep, and that, depending on the topic, but if you talk to me can you know it's sort of a level out of like how many people you talk to versus how much information you gather.
36:08 And so you know you'll learn a lot just from talking to five to 10 people within you know that sort of tight segment isn't in that conversation.
36:20 And I'm thinking like I had two thoughts like at once one was okay what are the best questions to answer ask them and then my next thought was maybe it's just more about listening and getting them to talk.
36:32 And just hearing about why they're involved in the organization to begin with and maybe that's where like through the conversation that is the deadline.
36:41 Does that make sense. Yeah, you know and that's a I don't people ask me a lot like what's the best questions to ask and I.
36:49 I do feel like you know it's depending on you want to know what first focus on that. Stay engaged but maybe not and I look at them to sort of take that next level step.
37:19 And you're going to start to learn a lot about that you know why your organization matters to them. And then if you want to share them with them some new ideas like you know these are some things you're thinking about.
37:31 I don't know yeah I wouldn't take everything they say at these value but just get like doesn't make sense. Does it, is it motivating for them do they have questions and then you know you will learn.
37:43 You'll start to find patterns in those people's experiences and how they comprehend new ideas. Yeah I love that I want to give people permission to number one like have these interviews do it imperfectly and do it from a curiosity place versus like have to know the right questions.
38:04 So I can get the right thing from them so then I can find more people like them versus like you just said of like find out what what their own donor journey was like or their own experience back was like and then just have a conversation and then invite them into.
38:18 Maybe what you're working on or what you're thinking about and if you do that five times I'm totally with you you're going to have you're going to have some really excellent data on next steps.
38:29 And you're also going to have five really beautiful conversations of newly stewarded you know donors in a way that they hadn't been before so they're going to feel more connected to you to yeah.
39:01 Yeah, and I think there's definitely some watch out so like you don't want to let one person strong opinion over shadow you really want to look for patterns.
39:11 And you're standing your work you're not instead of going to know how to reach them. So I want to jump back to surveys for a second.
39:20 And number one is, is there any way to incentivize that this is total what's it called question it's going to serve me to incentivize self survey question how to get people to fill out surveys.
39:33 So I so here's here's kind of my survey framework is I try and keep the number of questions short so that I'm not like giving them you know 20 questions I try and give them like five questions within a room to speak their mind to with that piece but is there any way to get people more people to fill
39:52 out surveys. Yeah it's so funny I just listened to a really great podcast Adam Grant on incentive I love. Okay, and and it was really because you know they talked about you know incentives and how there's sort of like there's sometimes like social pressure incentives there's wanting to be a good person
40:15 . Yep, but there's also like oh I get you know I get it. Yeah, you know something I've been wanting and that sometimes when they combine the two it actually decreased.
40:29 Oh okay, you know so. So you know if you really want to get into it like there's. I guess the the real trick is there's no way of knowing exactly what will perfectly incentivize people and so you could.
40:43 Test it out if you really. Usually when I do surveys that sort of a big asked to test out an incentive beforehand.
40:54 And so I really just believe in like you know. Having it having at least some kind of you know monetary incentive that is not going to influence the results.
41:06 That will like grab people's attention so. You know if you do surveys all the time and you offer a hundred dollar gift card and you really want this survey to stand up, maybe it needs to be a little bit more.
41:17 But then I also believe in just getting just getting people's attention so. You know, at least three reminders for a survey.
41:27 Thank you. Okay, I was like reminders reminders reminders, but you just added an extra reminder. So that's amazing that you said three.
41:33 So like everyone. She said three reminders. That means three. Yeah, I mean, I told a story before it took 10 reminders for me to order photos for my daughter's like preschool 10.
41:47 It was like email text email text and finally the 10th one. I was like, I got to order this. Yeah, I mean, think of the thing that like you can is like the bottom of your to do list.
41:59 Yep. But it would take to take action on that and that is what you need to do because. Yeah, I do list right down there take a survey.
42:09 And so, you know, and not just reminders like why why is it important like why do we need your feedback.
42:18 You know, kind of what's what's in it for you, even if it's just a make little world of better place.
42:24 You know, so those kind of things. I feel like are super important to get people felt survey because. Yeah, first they have to open up the reminder.
42:36 And then once it's open, they got to click on the survey and so, you know, you really got to try a few different angles.
42:43 You know, I know there's sometimes where I just don't see them. It's like, oh yeah, another survey another survey, but if you can get, you know, try a few different headlines.
42:53 So it doesn't seem like you're just. You know, asking the same question over and over. Yeah, and it's like, no one wants to fill out a survey, but they do want to give you their input on this thing that they care about to so it's even just the way you package and position.
43:09 The actual survey itself, so that they feel like, you know, they're either part of something or that they're helping their part of their helping you or right.
43:18 So it's not just the call to action fill out the survey or we can probably do better than that too.
43:23 Yeah, and I will say the other thing that can help and this is sort of the long term view is is giving people feedback.
43:32 So if you people fill out your survey and they never hear from you again. So they're going to think twice about the second server.
43:41 I wish I had some like great statistics on this, but you know, like I think I'll just can relate to it.
43:47 When you hear okay, these are some top line things we heard this action. You know we're going to look into this because of this survey.
43:57 Now you feel like, or I actually did something like I made a difference. And when you get asked to fill out a survey again.
44:04 You're going to be a lot more exciting. This is no different. I call this like closing the story loop. So if you have a fundraiser for 50k.
44:11 And then you never tell us like what what it did you did you do it? What happened? Like if it was in a container of time, the campaign as close the loop.
44:20 What happened. Tell me, you know, and it's the same thing, especially for surveys too. Yeah, if somebody went through the trouble of filling it out and sharing their input.
44:28 Like they don't want it to just go off into the universe. Having never heard back. We we are now engaged.
44:34 They went through it. So like close the loop and tell us what happened or tell us what's next or just a little tidbit from it.
44:40 I think that's such a good good piece. And I bet that when you do that there's so much work and pill to do it again.
44:47 Right. It's just yeah. Yeah. This has been such a great conversation. So before I ask you our final question. I'd love to know anything else that you would love our listeners to know or something that you're working on next.
45:04 Oh, that's a good one. Well, you know, I love to have to connect with people on LinkedIn because that's where I'm just always putting all my ideas testing my own own things to see what some people's minds and you know learn and go back have some interaction.
45:25 And I'm trying to think of what else. I don't know. I'm kind of just like in a in a good.
45:31 You're LinkedIn is rocket in rolling. I got to say you've got a good LinkedIn game. We're going to link to that for sure in the show notes.
45:37 So go hang out with our LinkedIn. Yeah. Well, you know, I've really been focusing on helping one, you know, helping people helping organizations that have been maybe feeling a little loose and unguided over the run.
45:53 So I'm really excited to use listening as a way to help, you know, reset who they are and where they focus.
45:59 And as a free strategic planning, but then also that, you know, that younger audience and really understanding some some new spaces that organizations can go into.
46:11 I love that. That is, that is one of the number one talked about like wants problems needs is like cultivating that younger donor base.
46:20 So I think it can feel, I think it can just feel overwhelming, but if you start by just doing this listening, doing some survey, doing some interviewing.
46:29 I think that will help inform the next step and it's just like one piece of the time, one step at a time and start with this.
46:36 Yeah, I, you know, if you're doing nothing you're not learning anything and so there you go. You just got to start somewhere.
46:42 It doesn't need to be be a big, you know, multi, you know, just research plan. It just, you just need to start learning about those that group.
46:53 So, last question we ask every guest on this podcast is one, what is one thought you like to think on purpose.
47:01 And I like to think of this as it may be something that is an affirmation, a mantra, just something that you believe, but what's a guiding thought for you in your life.
47:13 Let me see. I've, I've, I've, I have all these post-it notes around, so I forgot like, oh, good, good, yes.
47:20 Which one is the right one to, to talk about, you know, I, I think this idea of creativity. So I have posted across for me my mantra for this year, just creative confidence.
47:33 And, and I think sometimes in the nonprofit space, we think about creativity as like, you know, not a best practice, not something tried and true or trustworthy, but like, to think creative is like, what makes you think about it.
47:49 And it makes us humans and helps us connect with people. And so to be able to just have some confidence in like the unknown and, and some new ideas and gives you, you know, the stuff that I've been talking about, or we've been talking about this whole session of like, how do you then throughout some
48:10 of those ideas. But I think there's like that idea like if we're not creative, we're just not humans. And so like, let's take on how to bring more of that to just make, you know, make things special, make things connected and, you know, just to use it to solve problems.