Ep 54: Unraveling the Imposter Complex: From Self-Doubt to Iconic Impact with Tanya Geisler

EPISODE 54

imposter complex vs. imposter syndrome

 
 
 

Picture this: you've just nailed a great job, a promotion, or a personal achievement. You should be on top of the world, right? But instead, you're plagued with a nagging voice telling you that you're not good enough, that you don't belong here, and that your success is a fluke. Welcome to the world of the imposter complex.

Today, we sit down with leadership coach Tanya Geisler, who sheds light on our inner imposters. As we unravel the complexities of the imposter complex versus imposter syndrome, Tanya shares a poignant story of a friend's struggle with overwhelming responsibilities in a new job. This story illustrates how imposter syndrome can permeate our lives, often when we least expect them. Tanya also guides us through the intricate relationship between success and the imposter complex. We examine how this can lead to people-pleasing, identity shifts, and even obstruct our capacity to celebrate our wins. Together, we navigate the minefield of ego, inner chatter, and the struggle to recognize our accomplishments.

“The ego wants to want more than it wants to get. One of the hardest parts is to celebrate when we achieve our goals. ”
— Tanya Geisler

As we delve deeper into our chat with Tanya, we explore the uncomfortable territories of the imposter complex - comparison, procrastination, and perfectionism. Each one is a potential contributor to feelings of inadequacy. Tanya's journey from advertising to coaching and the common thread of the imposter complex she noticed amongst her clients, is a compelling narrative. We also discuss the power of understanding and embracing our unique identities, and understanding our 'why', a key to recognizing our true greatness.

 Finally, Tanya provides us with a glimpse into her program "Your Iconic Impact", aimed at combating the imposter complex and maximizing your true potential. Remember, you are already an icon; it's time to own it! Tune in for an enlightening talk that will help you navigate your imposter complex and maximize your iconic impact.

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FIND OUT YOUR ICONIC IDENTITY [QUIZ}

About Tanya Geisler

Tanya Geisler is a certified Leadership Coach, in-demand international TEDxWomen speaker, and writer who teaches leaders how to combat their Imposter Complex and lead with ICONIC impact so they can achieve their ultimate goals. Her clients include best-selling authors, heads of industries, MPs, public speakers, leaders, movement makers, entrepreneurs, and legendary motivators.

Think you’ve reached out to “everyone” in your network? Out of ideas to get noticed and get funded?  Generate leads for your nonprofit or social impact business: https://www.splendidcourses.com/prospect

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Resources mentioned:

 
 
 

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TRANSCRIPT:

Christina: 0:45

Welcome to the Purpose and Profit Club podcast for nonprofit leaders, mission-driven creatives and social entrepreneurs. Get ready to stop dreaming and start doing. Here, ideas become action. We prioritize purpose and profit. You ready, let's go? Welcome to the podcast. Atanya Geisler, I am so excited to have you here. We have mutual friend, I believe, and Carrie Melissa Jones, who was a guest on the podcast and who I recently turned on my car and her podcast episode played and I was like she is the best. So let's love on her for a second. And I want to hear all about you. Tell my audience a bit about you. I've been following you for a while on the Internet about what you do.

Tanya: 1:29

Yay, that's working, that's working, that's working. I'm so delighted to be here. I mean, carrie is just a magical, magical human, so anybody who comes through the carry door, I'm like we're here for them. So thank you for having me, and I know how much this podcast means and how much your folks mean to you, so I'm excited. So I'm a leadership coach and my body of work really centers around the imposter complex experience helping folks to dial down when it shows up so that they can get into action, because y'all got some pretty big things to be doing and the imposter complex is obsessed with keeping us out of action, doubting our capacity and alone and isolated, and we are not here for that. We're not here for that.

Christina: 2:17

That's right. I love the energy already in your intake form. All of the listeners know the last little section I'm like anything off limits and you're like nothing.

Tanya: 2:25

Bring it.

Christina: 2:26

Oh, she's my gal, let's go. Yeah, okay, the first thing I want to dig into is you call it the imposter complex. So tell me about what that is for you and why you're why you call it that, versus the imposter syndrome which we kind of hear through and around. Yeah, okay.

Tanya: 2:45

So even in that question there's so much to be said. First of all, for all of you listening, integrity for the win, because normally I start this piece with, like oh well, my SEO people are really pissed off at me because everybody is searching for imposter syndrome, but you still manage to find me somehow some way, even though I use imposter complex. So integrity for the win, like I say. So I call it imposter complex because syndrome suggests a clinical diagnosis. So this is not a clinical diagnosis, it's an experience, it's a phenomenon. I feel like when we use medical terms then it really pathologizes first of all something and it co-ops what other people are having as a lived experience with a syndrome. So imposter complex, you know, was actually named imposter phenomenon when it was originally named back in 78 by clinical psychologists Pauline Clance and Suzanne Ein. So they called imposter phenomenon and then somewhere along the road I think it was maybe Valerie Young started calling in imposter syndrome, sheryl Sandberg. That's where it really took off. And you know, I mean it attracts. It's just inaccurate. And so I just you know reasonable people behaving reasonably I just like to be precise in my language and as much as I possibly can. So again, people are looking for imposter syndrome. But I call it complex for all the reason.

Christina: 4:10

As you explained. That it kind of clicked with me, which is as a parent, it's really important to like not label a child as well. They're really hard like oh, they find math really challenging, because I see this, I would never say that's my child, because inevitably they become, become somebody who finds math really challenging, right Sort of live into the identity you say in that imposter syndrome as, like a medical diagnosis, it does start to feel really heavy versus something we all you got to fix.

Tanya: 4:40

that you got to fix. that you got to fix that because there's a broken part of you. Exactly, yeah, exactly. It's actually very, very extraordinarily common experience for folks who have beautiful math values of proficiency and excellence and integrity. So, no, it's not an actual fundamental challenge. And then we also, you know, in a lot of institutions and organizations I mean I know a lot of folks are listening to this and so they've maybe been told by their, by their superior yeah, you really need to get over yourself because you've got imposter syndrome, and that's very like oh yeah, and real. The reality might be more like hmm, is it that? Or am I diminishing because I'm actually not getting any institutional ground cover here?

Christina: 5:28

Yes, yes, yes. So let's, yeah, let's stick into like some specific examples, because the first time, first of all, imposter syndrome was something I never really it wasn't a word. I latched on and maybe because I was, it did sound clinical, that I was like I don't know what that is, I don't think I have that, I don't think anyone I know has that, and I just sort of scrolled on past it until a few years ago I had a very close family friend who was feeling an intense amount of overwhelm in their job. They had stepped into a new role that was more senior level and it just felt like drowning. And this person, I was like they got this, like the whole time I was just like they got this, like I could see it for them and it was frustrating. It was frustrating to like hear that that back and forth and I was venting about it to a girlfriend and she said to me oh, they have an imposter syndrome. And it was like the first time where I was like that's what that is, okay, that is. And then it like helped me have, like it helped me give it context, but I the next layer of it was I kind of didn't know what to do for that person of like. Do you know what I mean Like, cause I just all I could think of is you're the smartest person I know. Like you're fine, you got this job. Like you got it, you'll be great.

Tanya: 6:48

Get out there, you know and then when you said that they're like give it a but like, but like yes you didn't see my work.

Christina: 6:54

I'm so messy. That's right you weren't in that meeting. It was so hard you weren't there. Yeah, yeah.

Tanya: 7:01

So a little bit of you know for anybody else is to like yeah, I don't, and I really really appreciate you sharing your experience, cause usually I'm talking to people like, oh, my God, as though get this. So the way Clance and I'ms, when they were working with women at Oberlin Oberlin college back in 78, what they identified about this experience was that no matter how successful these women as it turns out, that's who they were working with originally no matter how successful they were, they would chalk it up to luck, fluke, timing or having somehow managed to convince people they're smarter or more capable than they actually were, much probably like your friend. So any success they would chalk up to external factors. Any failures, 100% on them. That's all internal and that's all me. That's all me, that's all me. So that's really the, the, the experience of this, how we recognize it. So we, we devalue all of our successes and we over identify with the failures. So like a pretty human experience, yeah, yeah. So you know there's a bunch of. There are a bunch of different things on what you've just said. One of them is like so how I help somebody with that? It that you didn't actually ask that, but I hope over the course at this time we'll get to like how you can actually do that. They need to recognize that themselves. Though what's actually going on and that, for me, is my work and what is actually going on that this is a, you know, a function of being somebody that has high values, of, you know, excellent integrity and proficiency, and I say that all the time to just really like remind us we want to do the best at our jobs, at the things that are really meaningful to us, and this experience becomes really acute when it is something that's really meaningful, something that is very proximal to our heart. Right, and this is a painting that I did with my husband. It is not I have zero imposter complex about painting, because it doesn't matter to me, it's fun. It's not fun, but it's going to show up on my parenting and my coaching and my speaking and my writing, the places that I am, that I am really, really, really invested. So it shows up in places that really matter to you and, just like your friend, when you are on the press, the Pacific expansion. So usually it's like, okay, all right, hi, I have these beautiful values, I'm doing something that's important, that something really matters, and I'm stretching myself. Ding, ding, ding. It's a good thing, yeah.

Christina: 9:38

Oh, that's so good, okay. So, yes, it probably shows up for a lot of the people that I work with and is something that we talk about often, because I'm naturally giving them a nudge, a push, whatever towards a loving Come on, let's go towards that next layer of growth, right? Which for me I work with a lot of nonprofit leaders and fundraisers it means two things. I always, just I always kind of say you feel like you're putting yourself out on a platter to be judged, because you're saying you're putting, getting yourself visible, and you're saying to a potential funder hey, will you meet with me? They're saying, yep, let's go to have a meeting. Then you're talking about your mission and then you're asking for the most amount of money you've ever asked for for your cause, right? Or you're basically so you're putting rejection on a platter and I feel like that's when we see that dial of that imposter complex, really feel like, uh, nervous, I gotta get out of here. It feels very shaky. Yeah, comes up a lot.

Tanya: 10:39

Why are you serving up, why are you serving up rejection on a platter when you should be serving up the outcomes on the platter? Yeah, serve the outcomes, serve the outcomes. So, just so you all know, my husband is in fundraising and has been since the beginning of time.

Christina: 10:54

Well, he must be a rock star at it. Mary to you. Oh, wow, great.

Tanya: 10:59

I'm gonna get that. I'm very glad that this is a documentus. I'll be able to replay that ad nauseam. It's kind of a rock star that's independent, but yeah. So I mean, I get like I absolutely, you get the language and it is. It is the outcomes, it's the outcomes, it's the outcomes. Now one of the problems that I know that many of the fundraisers are experiencing is they're getting a lot of pressure from all different directions, including people are like, yeah, but our brand, we're Red Cross, everybody loves Red Cross, everybody like this should sell itself, and it doesn't, and it just doesn't. So, first of all, whoops, do I feel, you Do? I feel you Do, I feel you. And so there is this over, there's this over a grandizement of the property value already as you're going in. But you all need to be like, really committed in yourself and very clear about what the outcome, what the delivery, is going to be, more than anything else. So, of course, anytime we're stretching out and making any ask, it feels like we are putting ourselves on this platter, but we're not.

Christina: 12:08

Take yourself off the platter. Yes, take yourself off the platter, it's the.

Tanya: 12:12

this money is going to go here and here's the outcome. Here's the deal. Just take yourself out of it, Cause we love to do that. We have to. We love to collude ourselves, and this is the same for your entrepreneurs Charge. What you're worth is the most. I just banal kind of no, it has nothing to do with your worth, it has everything to do with the outcome. That you deliver has the value of that. So we have to un-collapse the two.

Christina: 12:42

We have to separate self-worth value, all of that from whatever action we are asking for. So the nonprofit it's you're like the vessel to get your service or program accomplished. Right, it's not about you. It's not about you.

Tanya: 12:57

And you don't know. I mean, you walk into these meetings for our fundraisers, you walk into these meetings and you don't know what's just happened. The CEO has just decreed that it's only going to be children's charities going forward, or almost like you don't know, you don't know and so, but we want to make it about us. So this is the part where it's this. The imposter complex also does like it to make it about us, right? One of the things I would say, but that I think it's really important to understand, is that the imposter complex is deeply rooted in a sense of belonging or not belonging. Yes, yes. So it has a sphere of success as much as it has a sphere of failure, because on either ends, we are out front, we've got the target on our back, or we are lagging too far behind the pack. So it's really about how we are relating to others, how we are fitting in, how we are belonging.

Christina: 13:53

Can we talk about that success piece? Because I ran a live cohort for fundraisers and it was kind of like a sprint and the first goal was just to identify who are we asking? How much are we asking for? What are the outcomes? What does that look like? Giving them support? And what I realized was we had some great wins along the way and they would come to the calls. And I remember one fundraiser in particular got the yes, they got the outcome they wanted, but there was an intense amount of anxiety around it. There was not celebration and this idea of like and I was like oh, I remember that feeling from my beginning of entrepreneurship, days of like. I actually got the client, I got the yes on the proposal and I think the thought around it is like what if I fail? Or oh shit, now I'm attached to this person and I sort of forgot until they brought this up. And then everybody was like that's me too. That's me too, of like now, or maybe this was a fluke they said yes one time, so let's talk about the success piece of the imposter complex.

Tanya: 15:03

Oh, my goodness, again, how long is the piece of string here? Because the other, like I heard so much in that again. So the success piece. Well, first of all, it's very simple. Well, now I have to deliver. Yes, how did?

Christina: 15:14

you deliver, I can do this.

Tanya: 15:16

Maybe I did a really great job and I did wow them, but oh, did I just charm them, did I just? So if you happen to be a people pleaser, that will show up a lot. They just gave me the opportunity because they like me. The client just signed up with me because they like me, Not because I'm deeply skilled and talented and brilliant at what I do or the outcomes that we are going for are going to be extraordinary, so that can show up. I do want to make sure that we sort of put a thumbtack in that and definitely come back to those behavioral traits in the imposter complex, like people pleasing, because that's a game changer. So there's that. It's the oh like, oh shit. Now I have to deliver, and I'll have to keep it up to this great standard, because actually, it was super prepared when I went in and did a really great job and, like did my job really well, uh oh, can I match that? The other thing, though, is on a more global level. So there's the project based, and, again, it's always the macro and the micro. Yeah, on a, especially for the entrepreneurs, you may find that we can always sometimes we can identify a lot with the struggle, and so if we don't have that struggle, that hustle, then we feel like we don't know who we are, or we also feel sometimes in that when we get to be successful, we have a belief that it's gonna require us to disconnect from who we are, how we've been and the people who got us here. So this is the thing I see all, all, all the time People who are in the process of something really big and that's what sits under there sort of not even ambivalence, but maybe some of the procrastination, some of the diminishment, some of the dialing it back is really, what is it gonna mean if I need to continue to operate at this level? So there's, so there's a what's gonna happen when I'm there? And then also, can I sustain it? Can I sustain it?

Christina: 17:26

Yeah, I think there is naturally that as you grow and as you are pushing yourselves ultimately you're pushing yourself towards goals you want to achieve there are still these identity changes and identity shifts that happen along the way. And that sounds like what you're talking about is like, suddenly, instead of becoming somebody who got gifts as high as $5,000 and really grinded and I'm thinking of a couple of folks who are like I work, you know, monday through Monday through Sunday, no days off and you're like it has to be hard, hard, hard, hard, hard. And as the shift comes in, I said to one of my clients you're somebody now who fund raises and gets $250,000 individual gifts. We know that because you did it. Now you're that person and that's gonna be Dan. And identity shift. I get that of like, and it was for me too, the first time somebody paid me $200 and the first time somebody paid me $20,000. You're like oh, that's a different, christina, and that can feel shaky, that can feel uncomfortable, right?

Tanya: 18:31

Sure sure, sure, sure. So you know one of the things. Yeah, I mean again so many different directions we can go here. But yeah, that is the identity shift and it becomes the baseline. But then it becomes the baseline, but what happens if I don't get $20,000 again? Yeah again, what does it mean if I only get $200? $200, yep.

Christina: 18:55

So now so what doesn't? So what does it? How do we handle that? How do we, how do we deal with that? That is all this inner chatter which we are having all day long, or those are. It's so funny like the questions our brain asks us all day long where it's like can I just running in the background?

Tanya: 19:13

So a really foundational aspect of our humanness is wrapped up in the ego Lesser cotton socks. We wanna make ourselves so wrong for this, but the reality is the ego wants to want more than it wants to get. So when we get to that 20,000, it's impossible for us to celebrate, or can be impossible. It can be challenging, shall we? It can be challenging for us to celebrate because it's like, yeah, but I can. Now we're gonna sustain that or we move the goalpost. Sorry to interrupt our favorite thing?

Christina: 19:45

Well, that's good, but I need 40 now, but it took so long but did you see how much I?

Tanya: 19:52

had to do for that and that's also part of our identity. But it's not like and that's also part of our identity, but yeah, so it wants to want more than it wants to get. So our job might possibly one of the hardest jobs we can do is to celebrate when we achieve that goal, even for a hot sec. Because, remember I said, the imposter complex wants to keep us out of action, doubting our capacity, and alone and isolated. It doesn't matter if you're just starting out, at the beginning of your career or at a C-suite level. The strategies to overcome the imposter complex are consistently the same Addressing this, keeping out of action, doubting your capacity, and alone and isolated. So the difference between the person who's starting out feeling the imposter complex and somebody who is at the top of their career top, top, top, top of their career, is just proficiency with these tools. But they're still gonna have to use the tools, that's all there is to it. But they know, when they look back on their career, they remember those $20,000 deals, when the $200,000 deals, and they remember there was the bit of a block slide and then what? they did right. So it's just about being able to look back with a kinder eye on where we've been. But we won't do that successfully unless we lock in those moments of celebration because the ego wants to want more than wants to get. So it's already onto the next thing, right, already onto the next thing. You know it, you've seen it.

Christina: 21:28

Nothing has ever been more true I already know this is one of the quotes going into the graphic for this podcast Like yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And just the first layer of it is just normalizing. That's true for me, that's true for you, that's true for everyone. It's like it never quite goes away and there is not a point where you're like I did it the finish line, I've run across it. Now I don't have to deal with this anymore and I'm done.

Tanya: 21:54

Because we have those values of excellence, proficiency and integrity. So there's always going to I do a lot of work with women engineers, so this is always really fun to like to talk about. This part about you know perfection and how sharp the pen could be, the pencil could be to write the thing that needs to be said. Right, there's always room for 2.0 and 3.0, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But like it is iterative, that's kind of the idea. But as, because we have such values of proficiency, we're always going to want to do better and better and better. I love that about us. I love that about us. I love that. And it can be an absolute grind and, by the way, a huge part of white supremacy culture characteristics, right, right, this perfectionism like it has to be. No, it's iterative. That's the whole point. We're going to make mistakes, we're going to backside. We have to be cool with that, because we've also seen, you know where our life is right now. It's always heading in the right direction. That's your, that's your experience so far. It's always heading in the right direction.

Christina: 22:55

So okay, and we've got to dig in to people pleasing. And it's kind of funny because I'm noticing a pattern with myself which is, with people pleasing, very similar to imposter syndrome. I have heard that word through my whole life and I was like, yeah, that's not me. And maybe five, 10 years ago, something like that, as I was starting to really deepen like self-development work, it was like the label was the thing that was. I was turning me off to it, turning me off to right. I'm like I know what a people pleaser looks like. Oh, that's not me, right, yeah. And then if you just talk about what it is, I'm like, oh, I totally do that. Oh, I totally do that, exactly, exactly, exactly.

Tanya: 23:35

So, first of all, these are. I feel like there's another thing I want to name. Yeah, it's important, you know, because folks are going to be coming at this podcast from lots of different places and different experiences. I was usually start every speaking gig that I do with the acknowledgement of how I experience the imposter complex through my lived experience. It's a white, neurotypical, able-bodied woman of middle class means living in North America, so that's not everybody else's truth here, so we're all going to experience it differently. Part of my job, though, is to flatten it so we can say okay, this is the imposter complex, and there are a lot of other structural and systemic issues that are colluding with this. Again, like a person who's like okay, you tell me that I've got imposter syndrome and then I need to shine my light more brightly, but if I don't have institutional ground cover and I certainly haven't seen anybody who looks like me ascend to your level of leadership there's a disconnect for me. Right, that's right. So I think it's just really important to name that and acknowledge that. Okay, so, people pleasing, we don't want to feel like the imposter, that's just. Even. As I say, it's a human experience, it's a hot light fear. It's intended to make sure that we don't mutate too quickly. We actually know there are a bioevolutionary context to this, by the way, and we don't want to feel like it because that feels like shit. So we're going to avoid feeling like the imposter in a couple of different ways and they're coping mechanisms. So I have a quiz that's going to help people discern which is the one that's most up for them. So we hide up from feeling like the imposter by going to people pleasing, by having our boundaries be leaky comparison, diminishment, perfectionism and procrastination. So those are the six ways that we will avoid that we will go to to avoid feeling like the imposter. A lot of it's conditioned. So, depending on how you were raised, people pleasing may be your thing because you were told that it's really important, particularly for those who were raised as women. That's right. Good girls, good girls, get along with everybody. Good girls on break, good girls on break in huge space, right? So those are the pieces that are going to show up in the diminishment. The perfectionism is deeply conditioned, so we can sort of track where these things are coming from, but it doesn't change the fact that they are the ways that we are going to hide out. So and I like to just give people a bit more of an illustration for it so there's a double bind, this part of why I find this whole thing so fascinating. I go to this behavior to avoid feeling like the imposter, but in hanging out there I actually feel more like the imposter. Sucks.

Christina: 26:27

Let's let that sink in for a second. Yes, it's like I'm doing this thing to avoid this thing, which makes me feel like this thing.

Tanya: 26:35

Yeah. So if I'm a people pleaser which, by the way, that is my thing, have been all along and through my entire life it's just really hard of how I am and how I move. I want to make sure that people feel comfortable. I want to make sure that people feel included. These are beautiful aspects of myself that I am not willing to compromise on, and what it means as a people pleaser, though, if I want to make sure that I'm fitting in yeah, eric, what's in the fitting in? It might mean that I'm going to use my charm and my likability to make sure that everybody likes me. Here's the double bind now, when I get given opportunities, historically I might have felt, oh, they just gave me that opportunity because they like me, not because I'm deeply skilled and brilliant and talented at what I do. So that's the next thing. So then I'll discount it, so I'll get these opportunities. It's like well, that's nice, but just because I'm charmed by me and I ain't that good at charming, I'm actually really just good at my work and that's why I get invited the places I get invited to. So the next piece is Leaky Boundaries. So this might mean that we might hold a perspective or a belief, but because everybody else around us sees something different, we might start to agree with them. So we start to lose the integrity of where we begin and where we end and where we begin. So we sort of bleed into our surroundings Again, largely because we are deeply generous, we are highly relational, these are beautiful aspects of us. But the way then we start to feel like the imposter, because now we're holding a belief that's not ours. I'm literally standing here saying this, but I really feel this which has me feeling like the imposter. Yes, so that's our Leaky Boundaries, folks, folks who are diminished, who tend to diminish, who tend to dim their light. Yep, again, lots of conditioning there. It's not safe to shine, it's not, don't take too much space. So when we believe this and again we don't wanna be perceived as that person who's too successful, because then people will disconnect, fear of success. So now we start to dial it back, dim down our light, dim back our light. In so doing, we start to believe that less confident bio, we start to really feel that sense of diminishment which has us feeling like the imposter. Comparison we're perpetually trying to see how we're tracking with other people. So we are notorious as comparing our B-reels, all the mistakes of highlight reels. So if we're looking to see how we're tracking, we're gonna come up short, which is gonna make us feel like the imposter. And finally and ultimately, procrastination. I wanna avoid the experience of feeling like an imposter and doing this job and everybody finding out that I don't belong here. So I'm gonna delay and delay, and delay and delay and put it off and put it off and then eventually I finally get the thing done. But all of the worry and fear and stress and anxiety means that I'm not actually gonna do my best work, which of course has me feeling like the imposter, or I knock it out of the park like the champ that we are, and then it's like, oh well, I guess that wasn't, I guess that was just a moving target, that's the moving target piece, right. So it's like, well, they didn't really have very high standards, so we're still gonna discount it. We're still gonna feel like the imposter. And then, finally, perfectionism. I have to make sure that my work is so impeccable because I'm not sure that I belong here that it is above reproach that nobody can find any positive whatsoever, so I can work really hard. And then I look around and realize nobody else has to work this hard. Clearly I'm the imposter. So we're just coming and going. We're gonna feel this. So we have generally, we have one way that we typically shows up for us. For me like the pleasing, but it's gonna ping pong right.

Christina: 30:53

Oh, totally, I could see myself. I was like, yeah, all of them are relatable parts of life, yeah.

Tanya: 31:00

But yeah, everybody has kind of their favorite, they have their favorite like cocktail, like a little blend of them, and then they tend to ping pong off each other. So we might get a handle on your people, please. And they go. Okay, fine, I get it. Not everybody's gonna like me, I am fine with that, I can push them through. But then your perfectionism pops up, or you? get a handle on that. So it's important for me that people understand it as a structure, that it's not about the confidence hacks of getting over this diminishment piece or this one particular aspect, but your folks largely. It comes down to the diminishment, Most of your folks and some of the perfectionism, I suspect, and some of the people.

Christina: 31:38

Please, I think that those are probably the time that's the most up for your folks For sure, and as you were going through them, I was thinking about like physically it just sounded heavy and the word that came up I was like burnout. I'm like no wonder we see so many people in this impact, social impact space leave, because they're feeling just totally overwhelmed, totally heavy. This is not a pleasant like baseline to feel, and when I started this podcast, one of the things that I wanted to make sure that I did was help people get to where they wanna go, help them to get to it, accomplish those goals, but actually enjoy the process. And I'm my own first client. It's because I did it the other way and I remember being like this sucks, like it sucks to be spending five days a week or however often you work in a job that you choose to be in, yes, and feel a lot of the emotions you just described, most of the time right when you're like okay, well, I let myself celebrate for seven minutes on Wednesday and then I went back to like, and so I think that really brings up like the importance of this work and the importance of figuring out, kind of where you lean on. We'll make sure we link to that quiz Like okay, this is my sweet spot on where I lean on, you know. Oh, I'm a people pleaser and working on some ways to some strategies during your week. To you know what's the right word? I wanna say overcome, but it's not overcome that, because it's probably gonna show up right.

Tanya: 33:10

I just call it navigating and like recognize Navigate is here, you know. I mean, I have a client who talked about the work that I do is it's like a Formula One racing suit. It's like very custom for you, but it doesn't you know, it's gonna help you if you crash into some of the curves on that racetrack, which you're probably gonna do. It's gonna protect you from that, but it's not gonna stop you from that Cause it's gonna show up as long as you're working, you know, with this really important work that is very meaningful and very close to your heart and swinging out it's gonna show up. So my work is about having a faster recovery, or even just like flipping on the lights, which even faster, absolutely 100% I think that it's also what can be really powerful is. You know, let's face it, we work in a you know it's a $42 billion industry the self-development space. It's a lot of money invested in making people feel like shit about themselves. So I really think it's important that we recognize that all of these traits hold a golden shadow. So even you know the people pleasing like I named, you know it really speaks into my value of inclusivity. I ain't gonna change that about myself. What I can do is dial down the places where I might compromise my integrity, might not honor my word to myself as much as I'm honoring it with further folks. You know, if you have leaky boundaries, then you know it's your value of generosity. If you are have diminishment, then it's your value of humility. You know Comparison means that you deeply want connection. You know, let's just say procrastination is all about discernment and perfectionism is about a value of excellence. I think that when we look at those aspects.

Christina: 34:45

That's the kind of leadership that I'm here for, like just oh, my God, that I was like picturing a visual. I need a PDF of this because it feels like there's a harmony to it of just like it's okay, it's okay. I'm thinking about a lovely, lovely people please are in my life who also is just a deep welcoming empath Do you know what I mean? Who is just like I got you, I got you. And yeah, I guess the shift for me is it's not all negative. It's not all negative, like it comes from yeah, beautiful beautiful place.

Tanya: 35:21

So our job is to recognize, you know, where that perfectionism, which is really a value of excellence, actually keeps us out of action. That's right. It's so important, right? So we root into. Well, am I willing to fail? Of course actually willing to fail, cause I know that I can swing out, and I'm gonna have to swing out because, yes, I wanted $20,000 donation, but I really wanted $250 donation. So let's start there, and I know that I'm gonna just like that's gonna be part of the experience. So the next place that I take people is once you know the identity or the way in which it shows up for you. Then there's an iconic identity for you. So for me, it's the host. Yeah, as a people pleaser, I have the value of inclusivity, so I got a host. I got a host, I got to gather people in the way that people do so extraordinarily well and really powerfully gather people like it is my job Cause it kind of is in a lot of ways. So for the perfectionist, it comes down to that CEO identity. So, when you think CEOs, think about Beyonce and how, like she's delegating, she's delegating what needs to be delegated so she can stand in her zone of extraordinary genius in the most joyful way. Also, CEOs know that we have to fail fast. Right, we also have to iterate and we have to that failure comes. That's the bedrock of innovation. I'm sure somebody said that, but that's just what came up Right. So, like, we have to get to those places. You know, if you've got leaky boundaries, then your iconic identity is that of healer. You have to remember to keep yourself in your own circle of care as much as you're healing and caring for everybody else. You got to make sure that you put yourself in your own circle of care. Most of the folks that I know that are a nonprofit have a lot of this healer energy, particularly in sort of more medical. I would say I'd do a lot of work with folks in rare blood disorders. There are particular reasons for that. So that healer is so deeply essential, but make sure that you have to keep yourself in your own circle of care as well. Yeah, for those people who have diminishment as their thing really comes down to humility. But we need to make sure that your big, beautiful ideas are out there because you're the visionary. You're the visionary. Those who have comparison. It's their valid connection. Their iconic identity is that of the maven. That's the person who connects ideas with people and people with ideas, because they see very, very clearly what's going on. Sometimes, around the edges they got a little bit of, maybe, hero worship or disdain that can cloud it a little bit. For the most part, they are total seers. And then, finally, the person who has procrastination. I invite them to consider the sage identity because of that value of discernment. When we're all barreling through every so quickly, they're like actually in discernment which I'm gonna hustle hard. I know they're gonna hustle hard, but am I hustling hard in the right direction oh.

Christina: 38:22

So, as you're speaking and just through this interview, I'm like no wonder you and Carrie Melissa Jones like there's a connection, Because every time I talk to her, much like you, tonya, I'm like you're so intelligent, but you are distilling it in a way that I'm like I got you, I get it, I get it, I get it. Carrie is that way, too, where I'm like whoa, like a lot of light bulb moments. So I just wanna thank you, thank you, thank you, and I have to know how did you get into this, which wasn't on my list. But I'm like how did you get here which I know is not a good second to last question, but how'd you get into this? Because you're clearly in your zone, thank you.

Tanya: 39:04

That feels very true. I mean, I started in advertising. I started in advertising and there were aspects of it that I really love. I do like connecting ideas. I like figuring out ways to translate complex ideas into how to bolt so that your acknowledgement is deeply felt and received, and I appreciate that. Thank you, and it was soul-sucking work, man. It was soul-sucking work that was awful for me, and so I actually had a friend who was going through a bit of a career crisis, and I ended up creating an experience for her, which is basically just a beautiful brainstorming session where we gather people that knew her and loved her in different aspects of her life and we reflected back to her when we'd seen her really powerful, when we'd seen her really in her passion, and out of that experience she became a coach, which back in 2006, was not a thing.

Christina: 40:01

Not a lot of coaches, yeah.

Tanya: 40:04

And then, as I was going through my own, like, what am I doing with my life? What am I doing? My mother passed when my daughter was born. I was like this is a very short life, this can't be what I'm doing here. So she said, that thing that you did and what you've been doing in our relationship all along, you've always been a coach. I was like ooh. And then, very quickly, so the second, I knew, because I do have also a value of perfection. So I was like, oh, there's a thing and I can get certified, let me go do that. And I was like, oh, my God, this is it. This is the congruence of every single thing that I absolutely love about it. It was just so aligned. And then what? I really, very quickly I had some just very powerful clients and I noticed this through line of this experience. No matter that they'd been on Oprah's coach or had their book on New York Times-Festivalist or topped doubled their financial goals, they were still in the space of it's just a matter of time before they find out that I'm not. That's right, right, it's just a matter of time. I was like what, what is this? What is this fresh animal? But I had also been experiencing. And then I just became endlessly excited about understanding this particular piece that was holding these extraordinary humans back from the next and the next. And then I was invited to do a TEDx talk and that was just like, oh, I got to codify this and ever since then it's been incredible. I feel very, very, very lucky Love that.

Christina: 41:32

Love that and I love that you brought up that even people at the top, top, top of their game were like this is the through line. We're all experiencing this. I got it, yeah, okay, last ish question, which is we ask every guest on the podcast what is one thought or belief you like to think on purpose? So I like to think of this as maybe an affirmation or just a belief or something that helps you when you're feeling a little wobbly, when you're feeling a little off center, to bring you back.

Tanya: 42:05

It's not mine, that's my mama's mantra, who passed in 2004, and it's don't postpone joy. And that is so meaningful to me in so many different ways, not simply from the rainbows and light streams, but more from a. What does joy actually mean to me? And joy actually comes down to really specific triumvirate of values that I have to honor. So before we spoke today, I knew that I wanted to feel connected, I wanted to feel grateful for this opportunity and I wanted to feel generous. That, to me, is my experience of what I understand as joy. It's not for everybody else. And also, if I don't postpone joy everything like if I can experience joy in everything, I can experience it in profound grief. I can experience joy as I understand my work. And I also know that every time I prioritize joy in any way, shape or form, everything magnetizes in the most beautiful way, so I'm gonna postpone joy.

Christina: 43:10

Oh, I love that. Joy is something. Joy is a word that just this year has been popping up, so it's really interesting that you brought that up.

Tanya: 43:19

I really want to be very clear though, because joy for me isn't necessarily it's bullying, exactly yes, that's what, yes, and so it, yeah.

Christina: 43:28

And it was a word again, I don't use it a lot, I don't know why I didn't use it a lot, and so it made me do this kind of what is joy, and I love that you just said this. Yeah, cause joy isn't happy. No, it wouldn't be, but it's not, and so I just want to like, yeah, yeah, I love that you just said it, understanding your brand of joy, what I call it is the most critical.

Tanya: 43:50

I feel like it doesn't again. It doesn't matter if somebody's just starting out or they've been in this work and in this space for a really long time. Understanding this piece changes everything how you move through the world, how you make decisions, how you show up for everything. Understanding that, because it is absolutely it's so critical Carrie has a lot to do with connection. Go figure, right. Go figure then, that telling tales that the school sucks at that very frequently, so that's part of her life's work, then, is to create connection, cause that's what brings her what she would call joy. So, figuring out what it is for you and then postpone it.

Christina: 44:32

That's right, thank you, thank you. Thank you for today. Tell us a couple of things. Tell us what the quiz is called We'll link to it because I know, after hearing you describe it, everybody's like I need to take the quiz and how people can work with you.

Tanya: 44:46

So you can find the quiz. Chinaegazardcom slash quiz, I think it's. It's in an I'm a terrible name, or that is the truth. I just sometimes I'm like, how did I get where I am being a terrible name? I think it's just called the iconic identities quiz. I think I actually can't Perfect it's moments of chinaegazardcom slash quiz. You'll find it. And then how I work with folks. I typically work with folks through a exquisite program called your iconic impact, because we haven't even talked about that very much, but it is such beautiful work. It's the tools to help you navigate the imposter complex time and time again in the most aligned way for you and you. It always starts with a iconic spotlight session so we can figure out if that's the best place for you or if there's a spot maybe in my coaching practice.

Christina: 45:35

That's right and every single person in my world. It's impact is a word we use often because it's deep, deep, deep part of our. Why, right, it's a deep part of our, why? So, yeah, amazing. And I know anything else you wanted to share before we wrap up.

Tanya: 45:51

Y'all are ready. Icons I mean, you're already icons. That is the absolute truth of it, and what you are experiencing with inside of the imposter complex is you're just in such exquisite company I just cannot impress that upon you enough and there's just a couple of tools and just a bit of awareness that it's just it's. We need you, we need you, we need your work.

Christina: 46:13

Yeah, yes, keep going. Well, thank you so much for today. I so so appreciate it and I feel like I'm like I'm leaving pumped up, so I know everybody else will.

Tanya: 46:23

That's amazing. That is amazing Beautiful.

Christina: 46:26

Thank you so much for having me Like what you're hearing and want to take this to the next level. I want to invite you to go to purposeandprofitclub to watch my free class. In there, I will tell you the number one thing that's keeping your nonprofit or social impact business stuck and what to do instead. Go to purposeandprofitclub.

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PodcastChristina Edwardspurpose and profit, marketing, entrepreneurship, purpose driven, nonprofit, social impact, mindset, productivityComment